Dear Readers:
While it is true that rejecting mainstream versions of historical events is not a vice; neither is it true that dismissing all accepted historical knowledge is necessarily a virtue. It all depends on who your sources are. Sometimes (gasp!) the mainstream version is more factual than the conspiracy-theory version. Take the Jewish Holocaust, for example…. Or rather, don’t. Here be monsters.
No, let’s do it anyhow. Today I have this piece, reporting on some comments made by Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, when he compared Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Hitler. Lots of people get compared to Hitler, usually unfairly; but this time the shoe actually fits!
My regular readers know that I cannot abide Holocaust-Deniers. It’s not because they deny an important part of Jewish history. It’s because they deny a very important chunk of Soviet and Russian history! To deny the Holocaust, is to deny one of the strategic goals of the German Operation Barbarossa. Holo-Deniers are Euro-centric, they claim that Western European Jews were only displaced from their homes (and sent to spas and resorts where they were well-treated), and they were not killed in great numbers. That may or may not be true, depending on the country. But the Deniers don’t want to deal with the brutal realities of the Eastern Front, because the facts there do not support their fake narrative. In fact, the true losses among Soviet civilians were known only by Soviet Intelligence. Which, itself, downplayed them for political reasons. So that the famous number of “six million Jews” that is bandied about, is more than likely an underestimation. To deny that, is to deny the excruciating sacrifices made by the Soviet army and working people, to rid the world of this particular evil.
“Never Again”, at least not us…
Well, one evil dies, another, like hydra, sprouts a different head. After the war, the so-called “civilized nations” built international institutions, allegedly to prevent future genocides. But sadly, as we now know, when they chanted, “Never Again“, they didn’t mean that literally. Jewish/Zionist leaders in particular, always perfidious to the bone, only meant, “Never again, against us Jews”, they didn’t actually care if it was somebody else getting whacked next time around. Because their religion and their ideology claims they are better than other humans. They are the “Chosen Ones”. Just like the Nazis claimed that Germanics were superior to other groups, because they were so much better at … whatever.
But regular people around the world, ordinary people, normal people who don’t necessarily feel superior and who are not genocidal maniacs, need to come together and agree on one simple principle: That all human beings are created equal, and all have the same inalienable right to live their lives. Without being uprooted from their homes, moved to some other place, bombed, starved, and exterminated. Supremacist ideologies, such as Nazism and Zionism, need to be stamped out and eventually made illegal, on a world scale. Which project is made so much the harder when you have Hitler fanboy Holo-Deniers muddying the waters with their B.S. fake history.
As I mentioned in a comment to a previous post, the entire internet is infested with these vermin. I even started seeing them pop up on Russian-language mainstream comment forums; which would have been unthinkable in the past. Not that I endorse censorship of opinion, I don’t. This kind of falsification needs to be refuted, not censored.
Recently, on MOA forum, I recall reading one particularly egregious comment, directed against another commenter who made the obvious (and correctly ironic) comparison between Hitler’s genocide of the Jews and the current Zionist genocide against the Palestinians. The Holo-Denier was triggered into a bullying fury, penning something like: “How dare you mention the fake Holocaust after I have repeatedly posted comments proving that it was a fake and never happened! Never mention it again!” he ordered the other members of the forum. And not that this troll had actually ever submitted any “proof”, unless assertion itself is a form of proof.
These Holo-Deniers clearly believe that they are in possession of some important secret that the rulers of the world are trying to keep from the befuddled masses; namely that the so-called Holocaust never actually happened! Hitler never actually killed any Jews, he just moved them around a bit. Gasp! These scammers remind of me of those omnipresent youtube ads that usually start with the words: “Your doctor doesn’t want you to know this simple secret!” Like, the establishment is trying to hide from you, a simple lemonade recipe that you could make, in your own home, that would cure every disease, and you would never have to go to your doctor again! Which is why he doesn’t want you to know, of course, because he needs the revenue from your visits.
Socialist Normies Speak Out
Meanwhile, the “Normies” of the world, the true anti-Nazis and anti-genocide crowd, continue to speak out against all genocides, of the past, present, and future. This is mainly the burden of the socialist Left. Leaders such as Maduro, who stated in an interview with Venezuelan television: “What Netanyahu and the Israeli government are doing, can only be compared with the persecution and extermination of the Jewish people, by Hitler.”
Maduro also reminded people that German death camps actually existed, and that they were liberated by the Soviet Red Army.
Along with Maduro, other socialist leaders of the world, such as Miguel Díaz-Canel of Cuba and Lula da Silva of Brazil, have condemned the Israeli genocide in Gaza and have made the exact same comparison which so exasperated that troll at MOA: Comparing Netanyahu’s genocide to the atrocities of the Nazis against the Jews.
That there is a painful historical irony in this comparison, does not escape anybody’s notice. It should come as a shock and possibly a wake-up call to ordinary Jews around the world. To realize that they have lost so many old friends, not to mention the sympathy they used to count on. Once again, the Holo-Deniers make this task of salubrious “shaming” much harder than it should be. People take it more seriously when they lose an old friend who used to like them, than when they “lose” an enemy who always hated them anyhow, even when they were the good guys!
Awful Avalanche 
Spot on. Brilliant.
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Thanks, Beluga! I appreciate that. It was sort of my cri du coeur.
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“Because their religion and their ideology claims they are better than other humans”.
Zionism at the root is a secular ideology. Hertzl was quite opposed by the jewish rabbis, who, as many still do, especially from the more fundamentalist branch, see the expulsion of the jews from their former homeland as punishment meted out by YHWH for transgressions committed. And only god will lead them back.
For Hertzl is was not necessarily the “return” to the homeland (https://www.thejc.com/judaism/the-search-for-an-alternative-zion-o6ivpx52) that was important, it was any land that the jews could settle anywhere in peace, from Argentinia to wherever, to create their own nation.
The Palestine “solution” was, as usual with most geopolitical bad ideas, an english idea, based on the antisemitism of the british ruling class.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/zionism-anti-semitism-and-balfour-declaration/
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Great points. Some commenters on Judge Nap have made the point that Netanyahu himself is not very religious, he is basically a secular Zionist.
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Never Again ! really “only meant, “Never again, against us Jews”…Because…they are better than other humans…just like Nazis [are the] superior [race]”.
Except, it has come to pass amongst the Jews of Israel [and of the US] that “all [Jews] are equal, but some [Jews] are more equal [1] than others”, meaning; dark skinned African Jews can be “cleansed” from Israel [2].
So, at the end of the day; “Never Again !” has come to mean “Never again unless…it’s Kosher Nazism, then…then it’s okay…’cause..well..you know”.
—————————————————————————
[1] Which sounds suspiciously like; how some Rabbi-connected-Jews in the Warsaw ghetto would receive exit papers from the Nazis while most Jews did not.
[2] “The Black Hebrew community’s long fight to secure its status shines a light on Israel’s strict immigration policy, which grants people it considers Jewish automatic citizenship but limits entry to others who don’t fall under its definition.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ap-united-states-adl-jewish-african-b2379396.html
Again; “all Jews are equal, but some Jews are more equal than others”
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“all Jews are equal, but some Jews are more equal than others”
as to that:
https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/36/2/330/722787
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5493707/
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That’s very interesting. I am glad people are actually studying this and using statistics.
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An important lesson of history is to be found in the Soviet response to Hitler’s genocidal actions. Namely, that it wasn’t clever words or rhetoric that put an end to the killings. It was blood, steel, and the determination of the Red Army that eventually defeated the Third Reich. And a lot of good men died in accomplishing that goal. That sacrifice is still revered in Russia to this day.
Now I ask this question . . . could the German Jews of the 1930s have voted their way out of the fate that would befall them in a few short years? Could newspaper editorials or animated speeches have altered this course?
A new genocide is now ongoing in Gaza and the West Bank. It is happening in real-time and clearly visible to all via television and the internet. The response thus far is a mix of outrage on one side and obfuscation on the other. But the killing continues. Who will step up as the Red Army did in 1941 and put an end to this madness? Can anything less actually succeed against this kind of evil?
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Sadly, I don’t believe that anything can stop this genocide against the Palestinians, short of a magical million-man army appearing out of nowhere and crushing the IDF. Like you say, the Israelis will not be stopped by fine words, certainly not by conscience, which they do not possess. They need to take a real beating at the hands of a real army, like Hitler did.
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Uhmmm…while he’s pretty eurocentric and I wouldn’t trust Erdogan any farther than I could throw him, he is making noise and buying beachfront property in Egypt for his Military.
I doubt it but, if Turkey told Israel to f-off one day…they could make that stick. Erdogan could reject Europe, embrace the ME as his power-center and become the big-man he already thinks he is…just saying.
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a few thoughts:
1. “israel” is “antisemitic”. in as much as either term is an actual thing (they aren’t) the entire zionist project revolves around “let’s get rid of these annoying jews and ship them off to their supposed ‘homeland'” on the goyim side and “all you goyim have jew hate in your DNA so we’ll become safe by pissing off millions of arabs” on the jewish side. it started as a “solution” (final or otherwise) to the “jewish problem” that even marx wrote an essay about. it always came down to “orientalist jews” vs “assimilationist” jews…as in “we can stand you if you wear a suit and act WASPy but otherwise GTFO”.
2. agreed in general about deniers but it can be a chicken/egg thing. do they think they have some hidden knowledge and it gets them in trouble or does the suppression of discussion make them think the “establishment” (or “ZOG” or whatever) has something to hide?
we can nitpick about the numbers (which leads to the dumb spectacle of people saying “ONLY four milion died!” like dead jews are akin to the “acceptable” amount of rat droppings in food) but when mentioning the subject in ANY SINGLE way that isn’t 100% ADL-approved sends said establishment into screeching lab monkey mode and sees dopey nerds like david irving thrown in prison it kinda sorta sends a message of “we’re SO unable to refute you that we’d rather takes years from you and ruin your entire life”. it’s the whole “doth protest too much” thing and relies entirely on material force (police abuse and/or bank accounts nuked) so it reeks of “thought crime” fascism.
3. what we’re seeing especially among younger online types isn’t “the holocaust/shoah” didn’t happen; it’s “even if it did happen it was 80 years ago so shut the f__k up if you’re going to use it to kill little kids and flatten civilians with tanks”. they’ve grown up with the accepted version of the story (which itself usually omits the russians) but it doesn’t have the emotional hold on them that it does with gen-xers or especially boomers. internet generation kids live in the moment and don’t care much for history so grainy black and white photos don’t have the same impact as videos of slaughtered muslims on their tik tok feed.
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Excellent points all round!
On #2, I agree with you 100%, the suppression of discussion and jailing of deniers, leads these conspiracy theorists to believe that they are actually onto something, so it is counter-productive.
It’s like punishing people for covid-denial, for example. It just makes it look like the “establishment” are hiding something. The best remedy is always healthy non-punitive debate and education. Of course, when it comes to the professional Deniers, there is no educating them, as they are basically Nazis who approve of what Hitler was trying to accomplish.
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To your point #3, once an event becomes “history” it gets filed with all the other history out there. Of which, unfortunately, the dirty secret is that genocide works.
In the case of the Nazis and their specific enablers–many of whom were Banderites–the effort was snuffed out by the righteous rage of the Red Army. Other people groups haven’t been so lucky, going all the way back to Nile communities dug up with arrowpoints embedded in infant skulls.
Right now the situation is clear enough the current generations aren’t giving a pass.
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Yes, genocide works. That’s a sad truth. It accomplishes what the genociders wanted to accomplish, which is to get rid of people who they think are in the way.
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Just watched this, I highly recommend, Max is on fire when it comes to the total evil of the Biden/Netanyahu genocide:
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It seems to me that if we really peel away the layers, the real issue isn’t the Jews, but the Eastern Europeans.
My point of reference, being American, is the degree to which Eastern Europeans, many Jewish, but not all, going back to Brezensky and Wolfowitz, up through the Kagans, Nuland, Blinken, etc, have gained control of US foreign policy and led the charge to blow up countries around the world, probably starting with Yugoslavia, then all the forever wars through the Middle East.
Then consider that Nazism and Zionism are firmly rooted there, if not started there.
The Pogroms seem to have mostly been an Eastern European thing. Yes, the Romans, the Spanish have all kicked Jews out, beaten them up, but a lot of that is normal ethnic tensions. Which the Eastern Europeans seem to excel at.
It was gangs of Eastern Europeans, aka Zionists, who thought turning the clock back 2000 years, at the crossroads of humanity would be a good idea. The Jews across the Middle East and North Africa suffered the blowback from their Muslim majorities and consequently had to move to Israel.
The problem for Israel is that if you live by the gun……..
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That’s a very good point, about Eastern Europeans driving American foreign policy. Brzeziński, for example, was Polish Catholic, not Jewish, but he was the driving force behind the Carter regime and its support for the Saudi Jihadists in Afghanistan. These Eastern Europeans bring their ancient feuds to America with them. (Especially the feud against Russia.) And then form new alliances with other groups (including Jews) with whom they might have even been enemies in the past.
Another great example is the influx of Ukrainian Nazis into Canada after the war. They are not Jewish either, but they work well with the Zionist establishment, and all directed against a common enemy, namely Russia.
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I guess my reply got stuck to a following comment.
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Sorry about that! wordpress…
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I like kids. I have spent a lot of time volunteering at a preschool where my granddaughter is a student. I love these kids. So when I see pictures of dead and injured kids in Gaza and the sadness of the parents and families of these kids, it just is terrible for me.
And the natural response is to get the people of Israel to stop. But how? This mess is a long time in the making.
Some people say that if the US were to insist, they, Israel, would have to stop. Maybe this is true.
In one of the comments above, some mention is made of problems in the US and the fact that the government of the country does not answer to the people. This is a serious problem because, as a person living in the place, I do not know a single person who would hurt another person, let alone kids.
Yet our government does this kind of thing all the time. Who runs this place? That is the big question. Some people suspect that we might be controlled by foreign interests. It is certainly suspicious that on every politician’s website, mention is made of how much they love a certain specific country. I challenge anyone to find a politician’s website where this is not mentioned. Seriously, do it…
And so here we have bit of a problem but it is a problem that can not be discussed. Look at people who have tried and what has happened to them. It is no joking matter.
And the matter of the accepted historical narrative… You speak of deniers, what does that even mean? That one is not allowed to read and to study and make up one’s own mind if the conclusion is not exactly the one being propagandized at the moment?
Because that is what is at stake. Someone is selling a narrative. When the response to someone reading and thinking is to diminish them with pejorative labels such as denier or theorist, you know that a game is being played and that there are most certainly ***players***.
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Dear “somebody”:
I know what you’re getting at. It’s a fact that the Israel lobby (call it AIPAC, or whatever) controls the American government from top to bottom. Only a fool would not see that.
As for the rest, you’re clearly a Holocaust-Denier yourself, as you hint so delicately in your last paragraph. Clearly, your brain has added up 2 + 2 and come to the conclusion: 5.
The state of Israel and the domestic Jewish lobby control the American government. Fact.
Therefore, Hitler was a good guy, his intention to kill all Jews was a noble one, but in the end he never actually did it, he left that task for future generations. Hence, the alleged genocide of European/Russian Jewry in the early1940’s never happened. Is that your conclusion, you moron? Just have the balls to come out and say it, instead of dropping hints and dog-whistles.
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Though they have obviously run up against a brick wall in Ukraine and, I suspect, Gaza. Given Shumer’s speech to the senate, it seems the American muscle is starting to get second thoughts.
The problem for Israel is that the centripetal and centrifugal forces inherent in every society, conservative, liberal, young, old, are magnified in Israel, given the very religious side and the very cosmopolitain side. It is only the basically Bronze Age, Old Testament tribalism, to kill Amaluks, that brought them back together and is holding them together. And that had started to get past its sell by date, with the New Testament. As in, Turn the other cheek, the Golden Rule; Matthew 7/12, Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.
If you would like my big picture view;
View at Medium.com
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Orthodox or even slightly orthodox Jews have no use for New Testament instruction. It’s considered heresy; their scholars don’t deny the person of Yeshua (Jesus), or his miracles, but attribute his power to Satan and assert his disciples robbed the grave.
All that is to say, they’re operating by a playbook that is, from a Christian perspective, incomplete–the claim of Yeshia being that he came to fulfill (complete) the Law, not do away with it. Thus the Christian view (including Jewish followers) ought to recognize the sanctity of life regardless of personhood, in that each can repent and achieve the relationship with YHWH that the Law prefigured.
Many orthodox Jews are sufficiently schooled in their history (in fact, perhaps exclusively schooled in their history…) such that they recognize the futility and indeed danger in trying to exterminate the surviving people of “their land”. Both because such peoples were retained following the Hebrew migration by YHWH as an explicit snare versus the Jews, and because other Jewish groups that have tried to literally fight exile for their homeland have NOT been blessed.
Note as well that the traditional enemies of the Jewish people in the region are all gone: the Palestinians are Samaritans–an “unclean” apostate mix of stay-behind Hebrews with other people groups imported by Assyria and Babylon. Given that intermingling did occur among exiles, the main difference lies in cultural and religious expression. Which, when you consider the racist and often fascist impulses of the Arabic (and Egyptian) elite who surround the region, helps to explain why they ALSO hate the Palestinians.
So, Netanyahu wielding Amalek references (a people that was fully destroyed) is a red flag to the orthodox who *do* see the spirit of fascism that’s current in Israel. And yes, if you trace back you’ll fine a bright line in the Zionist project(s) that connects directly to British fascists.
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Thanks for the insight and information.
I tend to view culture through the lens of nature, rather than nature through the lens of culture, so I view the various religious orthodoxies as rabbit holes.
It is like a mental gravitational vortex, that once you’ve been pulled in far enough, not even light can escape.
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Once people start believing in religious cults, then there is no reasoning with them. The only way they can be approached is by debating them within their own ruleset. For example, a Rabbi debating another Rabbi about some obscure doctrinal point.
I was thinking the other day, this might be the only way to stop the genocide, namely by having some super-duper Torah scholar “prove” from some medieval writing that the Amalekites were actually the good guys. Or something silly like that. Well, it’s just a thought.
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I think we need to go the other direction and understand the basic dynamics by which people bond. Not just religions, but everything from sports to lovers. Being on the same wavelength. I try to go into it in that essay I linked above. Making it about the specific brands of group connections and the details involved gets lost in the weeds. In fact it seems the more illogical they are, the more it separates the True Believers from the merely social.
In fact there is a very good book titled exactly that, that I read, back in the 70’s;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer
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Some human bondings are healthy, like sports groups, book clubs, hobbies, that sort of thing. And other types of bondings are UN-healthy. Like religious cults, for example!
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That’s why we need to examine the basic, overall dynamics, than try to argue the crazies on their own terms.
As Mark Twain said, “Don’t argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
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True. But, on the other hand, if you were a hostage negotiator, and a crazy guy was holding a gun to a child’s head, then you might try the ruse of “relating” to the crazy guy, pretending to agree with him, etc. “I agree that your wife is a bitch and had no right to leave you, but you know that talking cat told you not to hurt the kid…”
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You are making my point.
Understand the basic psychology, in order to deter it, not to pour more gas on the fire.
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Yes, I think we are in agreement!
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Gotta be Marxist materialist about this. The goal for Israelis is control of the land and its resources. The mythology-tinged justifications are post hoc. There’s no point in arguing in those terms, since they aren’t ultimately the real motivation.
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Ben, you are right, of course, that it is all about the land grab, in essence. But what land-grabbers and their ilk do, is disguise their basic motivation under Salome’s 7 veils of deception. Which include political and religious ideologies, of course.
And, it seems, the deception works, because the vast majority of humans are incapable of seeing through the 7 veils, down to the very essence of what these veils cover, just so long as the girl keeps dancing.
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Ben,
I think the deeper psychology is more a matter of whatever tool works. That cultures/tribes/nations/mobs need some core set of beliefs, creeds, codes, heroes, narratives, goals, even if its basically greed and ego, to get everyone on the same page/wavelength, marching to the beat of the same drummer.
The problem for Israel is these natural centripetal elements have to co-exist with the equally natural centrifugal elements, youth, liberalism, cosmopolitanism, etc.
Such that Israel seriously misses that 2000 year gap in its civic/culture bond, aka church and state. Given its core Eastern European Judaism is very inward focused, while its more Western European cosmopolitan, intellectual side is very outward focused, without a strong feedback between them.
This was becoming extremely evident before Oct 7th and it is only by beating up on the Amaluks again, that has brought the country/tribe back together.
The problem is that while it might serve some immediate, emotional issues, it will prove to be a strategic disaster in the long term. I suspect Israel is about where Ukraine was a year ago. A positive spin on a total mess. They can’t really go to war with Hezbollah, as their strategic depth involves a lot of dual nationals that might decide their other passport is more viable and Western finance, that is about to have a much larger meltdown, than just Israel. So all they really can do, is keep bombing Gaza and videoing it.
Israel will just be added to the list of catastrophes for Western Civilization.
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We all know “somebody”. In fact, most all of us are somebodys. Most of us have lost friends by speaking too forthrightly; if not, we’ve certainly seen breakups over voiced political differences between former friends.
We are told to never forget about the six million Jews killed in WW2. We are Not told (Americans anyway) to never forget the twenty odd million Russians killed in the war.
When I am told to accept a narrative, to just STFU and not think, argue, or question, my daemon tells me that no matter how sweet and reasonable the narrative might be, that I must question it. I may lose friends, but I keep my self respect.
I’m not a denier. But I am a somebody who gets irked when told not to think. My Russian born wife just smiles, pats me on the head, tells me to play nice, and not answer the front door after midnight. (Oh, do I burn…)
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Regarding somebody: I use my name, so I am Peter Moritz, a somebody with a name.
I voice my opinion, not scared to use my name. Before I write my opinion, I check the evidence that can back up what I write. Trying to have an informed opinion.
The problem with – be it 4 or 6 million mostly eastern European Jews that were murdered, as an extension of the General Plan Ost, that palnned the extermination of Slavs, leaving only those usale as slave labour.
You are not a “denier”, you claim”.
Did you actually read what y wrote? Is there anywhere y tells you what to think? Where, please? He said he cannot abide those who think the Holocaust is a fake story. And gives you reasons why. Is that pushing a narrative? I cannot abide the idiocies of flat earthers. Am I pushing a narrative?
The problem with Holocaust deniers is that they deny relying on a biased narratives by those that are typically sympathetic to fascist ideology.
And as an expat German, my personal experience regarding surviving fascists that roamed our cleansed Republic after the so called de-nazification, was simply that: “Hitler did not kill enough Jews.” No denial by those that survived the 3rd Reich, still believers in the cause.
If deniers were serious about their claims, they are of course free to peruse the Archives in Germany. Like that one:
https://arolsen-archives.org/en/search-explore/insight-into-our-collection/
or the USA one, although hardcore deniers might claim bias towards the ex enemy skews those documents, claim them to be fakes. https://www.archives.gov/research/holocaust
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Thanks for the dose of sanity, Peter!
I think I prefer those German expats who just state their opinions bluntly, as you put it: “Hitler didn’t kill enough Jews!” At least they are being honest. I prefer that kind of blunt honesty to the slithery slimy contortions of the Deniers such as “somebody” and his ilk. He appears to belong to the “maudlin” subspecies, they usually start with something sickly sentimental like his entry with “I am just an ordinary person who loves children…” Yeah, right. I find it hard to believe that a Hitler-loving fascist gives a flying f*ck about Palestinian children.
And then, like this Buttie-Bill this subspecies typically continue with their whining, self-pitying protestations: Oh, I am so oppressed and censored, everybody bullies me and tells me what I am allowed to think and say… boo hoo!
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I bet she tells you you don’t have a square head, too!
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“I’ve been a round, I ain’t no square.”
I’m just a mensch, tho Yalensis may think I’m an untermensch due to my unclear writing ability. (Poor me, it’s true!)
Truth to tell, I’m often a blockhead, and often misinterpret others’ feelings from what they say. So I usually give others benefit of doubt just because I am a blockhead.
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Whta the West supports, and what the south already knows about present day Israel and how it fights its wars, and keeps up its supression. A boil that needs lancing. And it will. A Government and a society that to a lrage extend suppports such behaviour is not viable for long.
I thought to myself when the present day brutality against Gaza started, that Israel as anation will perish as a result of their actions. The Nazis had to hide the atrocities committed by their institutions from their German populace. Israel flaunts them:
“Israeli TV channels have been excitedly taking viewers on tours of detention centres, showing the appalling conditions Palestinians are kept in, as well as the psychological and physical abuse they are subjected to.”
How can a society that approves what happens in their name, that really knows, can over the long run justify itself to itself?
https://jonathancook.substack.com/p/torture-executions-babies-left-toIs
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I saw that monstrous news, how the Israeli police/army allow their civilians into the detention centers to view the torture and abuse, and are even allowed to record it on their phones, while giggling and making fun of the prisoners. Then they show it to their neighbors, who also giggle and love it.
One might think that such a sadistic society is not viable, but then remember how the Roman citizens used to go nuts in the arena and watch people being torn to pieces.
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In the US, all fiber optic lines of any significance are tapped and routed to two buildings, one in Utah and another in Texas. In these buildings, the entire message traffic of the internet is recorded. Edward Snowden lives in exile in Russia for talking about this.
My wish to not use my name is guided by this fact.
US weapons are used in Ukraine, Gaza, and elsewhere around the world. I am not happy about this. I do not want to see anyone killed, Jews included.
I have no opinion about the Holocaust. My whole life I have been taught and believed that it happened.
I broke my rule about never posting anything online because I liked you and felt like I learned more about the world by reading your blog and because I did not like that fact that people were being killed.
Now I don’t like you. Bye.
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Dear “somebody”,
The government surveillance is a proven fact, so I understand your reluctance to use your real name, it’s the same reason why I do not reveal my identity either.
Your original comment started out okay, if a bit circuitous, clearly you were hinting at the fact that Israel controls the American government through its lobbies and military alliance, something which is also a proven fact and not “conspiracy theory”. I don’t like that vague “maybe it’s this way…” kind of tone, I like people who just come out bluntly and say what they think. But whatever, I got what you were hinting at.
Where you turned me off was in your final cloudy “hints” showing that you follow the Holo-Denier fake-history narrative, here are the 2 paragraphs from your comment which turned me against you:
“And the matter of the accepted historical narrative… You speak of deniers, what does that even mean? That one is not allowed to read and to study and make up one’s own mind if the conclusion is not exactly the one being propagandized at the moment?
Because that is what is at stake. Someone is selling a narrative. When the response to someone reading and thinking is to diminish them with pejorative labels such as denier or theorist, you know that a game is being played and that there are most certainly ***players***.
Yup, somebody is selling a narrative, that’s for sure. You’re the one selling a narrative, but lacking the guts to just come out and lay your wares on the table.
Like I said, I can’t abide this kind of code-talk. Clearly you are a Holocaust-Denier, based on those last 2 paragraphs of your comment. Just own what you wrote! Now you cowardly back off and say you have no opinion about the Holocaust. Well, which is? Did Hitler commit genocide against European and Soviet Jews? Or did he not? In your learned opinion.
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This blog logs email address. To imagine it is not traceable is to be vastly naïve.
Pseudonyms are for keeping the unwashed masses from showing up at your door, not the authorities, should they decide you’re undesirable.
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So true. I have a pact with my readers, though: I won’t look at their email addresses or IP addresses. But that’s just me, and it certainly won’t stop the wordpress server administrators from doing that, come the day when they are served a subpoena by the ZOG government!
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”I liked you and felt like I learned more about the world by reading your blog…Now I don’t like you. Bye.”
Yalensis breaks another heart! What power you have over these men, Y, who are drawn to your wit and wisdom, but then they feel jilted when they find you don’t share their love of Holocaust denial. Which is their greatest love of all.
I echo what you elucidated above: Why can’t they just be honest and say straight up: “I don’t believe the Holocaust was real. I’m sick of listening to those whiny Jooz! I admire Hitler and those Nazis because they were tough guys who killed a lot of people. KILL KILL KILL!” That’s what they feel inside themselves, but they can’t say it openly. Not even in their own mind. Because they know it’s a disgusting denial of reality. They’ve seen the concentration camp photos; they’ve read the accounts of people who lived through it. Yet subconsciously, these “someones” cling to the opposite of the truth. They’re conflicted by their doublethink. So they couch it in terms of “I’m sceptical” because they know if they stated it plainly — “the Holocaust was fake!” — then decent people would scorn them. Like Yalensis, Moritz and others here just have.
Hey “no-one” (if you’re still reading, which you might be, because snivelers like to see if anyone rushes to their defence) you should page back through Yalensis’s posts from a few months ago to unearth comments by someone with the nym “Raccoonburble”. He was a Holocaust denier who denied his denial. A double-denier! “I’m just asking questions…” In addition to his denialist comments on Yalensis’s blog here, he has his own site where he goes on at length about why he thinks the Holocaust story we’re all told is a big fat lie. And Hitler was misunderstood. I’m not going to drop a link to make it easy to find, because screw you. You can do the work. Click on ‘coon’s avatar and it will take you there. You and ‘coon can have a wonderful commentologue about how you’re so much smarter than everyone else because you know all those images of crematorium ovens and starving Jews in striped uniforms don’t tell the REAL story. If you do, you can sook about how Yalensis was mean to you. Coon would love that, because he was annoyingly persistent until Yalensis finally ran him off.
P.S. Yalensis — “someone” should have gotten the Gravatar random image that looked like a swastika. The one he has reminds me of an owl. Eyes up top, a couple projections from the side of the head like a Great Horned Owl, wings on the sides… In mythology the owl was a sign of wisdom, so his avatar is as “opposite-land” as “that’s Gravatar’s swastika, not mine” was for that bloke, since he was definitely anti-Nazi.
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Wow, nobody’s gravatar does sort of look like an owl, I never noticed that before! Speaking of gravatars, I do miss Old Swastie, he was a good commenter and not a Nazi at all, he just got a raw deal when wordpress randomly assigned him that pattern. Hmm… you made me start to notice patterns, for example just below this comment we have our trusty reader ccdrake, and his gravatar looks like Egyptian hieroglyphs (that eyeball at the top) combined with some Sumerian cuneiform. Pretty cool, cc!
Anyhow, on a more serious note, I have been thinking a lot about these Holo-Deniers and their basic thought process. I think you nailed it, Bukko, but there is still a cloak of mystery why they like Hitler and hate Jews and yet deny (instead of celebrating) what Hitler did to those hated Jews.
From reading some of these types on other forums, I get the impression that most of them are very pro-German. (Which is okay to me, I am a Germanophile too.) They deeply resent what was done to Germany after WWI and WWII. I get that too, even the way the Western “Democracies” plus Stalin, punished Germany after WWII. Part of the punishment and humiliation inflicted on Germany was the Nürnberg Tribunals. Which were actually more Stalin’s idea than the others, if I understand my history correctly. The Soviets had more of an interest in stamping out Nazism, but the Westies pretended to go along. And then, after Israel came about, the Westies decided to jump with both feet into the “Jews as victims” meme in order to justify Zionism and Israel. [I realize I am making some very broad simplifications here, as to the actual historical process.]
But anyhow, psychologically speaking, I think it was this feeling of defeat and humiliation for those Hitler-lovers and Germanophiles, combined with the persistent propaganda of Jewish victimhood, which made these people decide to deny the victimhood itself (which was a real thing). Because they are unable, in their tiny brains, to separate out the cutlets from the flies, in the wise words of Vladimir Putin. Cutlets: the Nazi campaign to exterminate European Jews as a component of their overall war strategy. Flies: Jews are the most victimy victims who ever existed, and nobody else is allowed to hold a candle to them, so there! I even get it, why they get sick and tired of listening to this whining about the Holocaust and its use to justify Zionism. (Norman Finkelstein has written a lot about that false connection.) But just because a topic annoys you, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Speaking of Putin, it’s a whole n’other mystery why so many of these Holo-Deniers respect Putin and believe that he is one of them. I would really try to impress upon them: He is NOT. In fact, Putin is WAY too cozy with the Israeli government and just finished stabbing Hamas in the back one too many times. But that’s a whole ‘nother story….
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I’ve several times come across the claim that the Nazi-caused death toll in Russia during Operation Barbarism was 39 million. It is claimed that the KGB made this estimate after the war but that it was never made public in order to hide the horror of this figure from the public, although Russian leaders are said to have access to the figure. Yalensis, have you ever encountered this claim, and, if so, do you think it’s credible?
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I have not seen that particular number, but it seems credible. I have read a similar claim (sorry, I have no links) that Stalin ordered the security forces to downplay and underestimate the actual civilian losses, so as not to drive the public into despair and despondency. It is said that the current Russian government knows the actual numbers too.
After the Victory Soviet officials wanted to keep the mood upbeat, because they needed people to have a positive attitude and set about rebuilding. Hence, the government ended up sweeping a lot of stuff under the rug. Including the number of Nazi collaborators in certain Soviet Republics such as Ukraine and the Baltics. Soviet propaganda focused on the “unity of the people” standing shoulder to shoulder and fighting off the Nazi hordes, with only a few bad apples along the way.
I think there was also a feeling of shame that the government and army had not been able to protect its millions of ordinary Jewish citizens from the Nazi war machine.
It was this attitude that some intellectuals interpreted as denial. For example, the poet Yevtushenko was inspired to write his famous poem “Babiy Yar” because he believed the Soviet government was downplaying or perhaps even concealing the role of Ukrainian Nazis in the slaughter of the Jewish civilian population of Kiev.
I personally understand why the Stalin government chose public harmony over cold truth, but I still believe that adult citizens deserve to be told the whole brutal truth about reality, however horrifying. Children, of course, should be protected from the truth, until they are old enough to understand. Soviet government had a tendency to treat everybody like children.
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You’ve pointed to, I think, the sufficient line of reasoning for the Soviet Union to conceal the truth. There was a desire to let the re-integration of occupied territories proceed as quickly as possible, to imagine that they had been full of partisans awaiting rescue, and that the New Soviet Man was undimmed by the experience of the Great Patriotic War.
In reality, if the people had widely known, they likely would have been extremely angry toward both Stalin and collaborators, let alone the Germans. Far angrier than they actually were. There were also lingering fascist insurgencies still smoldering, especially Ukraine but also in the Baltics–and Poland was not blameless of course.
Even now there is still a hope that full conflict with the components of NATO can be averted, so the Russian government has reason not to publicize the true figures. If that hope is extinguished then we might well see some timely discussion float up regarding just how badly Russians suffered from their neighbors last century. Putin’s comments regarding the SS Charlemagne in Berlin could be considered a warning shot to this effect.
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Yup. Any ruler of Russia has to bear on his shoulders the sisyphean task of trying to keep the Russian people from panicking, once they realize they are totally surrounded by hostile enemies, just like General Custer!
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Thank you!
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By conflating Zionist ideology with Nazi ideology, you make a serious historical (and political) mistake. If you take the trouble to read even a Wikipedia article on Theodor Herzl, the “spiritual father” of modern Zionism, you will discover that Herzl never said that Jews were superior to other human beings. Some Zionists may believe such nonsense, but it is not part of traditional Zionist ideology. By the way, FWI, I agree with those Jews- such as Jewish Voice for Peace- who explicitly repudiate political Zionism.
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I suppose like, with any political ideology, there are multiple layers and factions within Zionism. It’s a complicated mess, I grant you that.
Upon further analysis, I think that people like Herzl were more “traditional” type European nationalists (with a small “n”) of the 1800’s, if you can call them that. Not un-similar to European nationalists such as Lesya Ukrainka, who was a socialist but also wanted to see a titular “Ukrainian” nation, just like the Italians got Italy, and the Germans got Germany. They just wanted their own territory, like anybody else. (Also Kurds, for example, who never got what they wanted.)
By the time Zionism actually had a chance to grab some actual territory, this nation-building phase was over in Europe and nationalism had become fascism, so I think the Zionist project was an abortion before it even happened. And especially after the Americans got involved in this project, it was bound to turn into a horror show.
In any case, I’m glad you follow the peace track, and I hope those Jewish voices can be heard, because they might certainly have more influence on other Jews than the voices of the Jew-haters and Deniers, that’s for sure!
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P.S. – on thinking about your comment, another thought occurred to me: the difference between the small “n” nationalists and the fascist nationalists: The former didn’t necessarily believe they were better than other people, just different. And wanted to pursue their own “civilizational course”, as Putin puts it, when talking about Russia. As opposed to fascists who do actually rank human beings in a hierarchical order from superior to inferior, based on their DNA.
I reckon the former could be called “cultural nationalists”, and maybe that is a description of Herzl’s views? I don’t know. I just know that it’s complicated. Which is why I prefer the socialist ideology because it’s just way simpler: You just divide people up into their economic classes, and then the ethnicity and culture and other stuff, is just an add-on feature!
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