Ukraine War Day #189: In The Tradition Of Ilovaisk

UPDATE WITH ERRATUM: Commenter Nicolàs noted that the initial image in this piece, which I believed was from Ilovaisk Battle, was actually from the Falklands War of 1982! Eek! My apologies, in my own defense I googled “images from Ilovaisk” and that was one that came up. So blame google. Anyhow, I deleted the photo from my post, that was the only change.

Dear Readers:

The big news on the war front continues to be the Ukrainian counter-offensive. It’s been only 2 days so far, but the Russian press is already declaring the project DOA. Today I have this piece by reporting team of Darya Volkova and Alyona Zadorozhnaya. Who interview various experts to get their opinions and analysis of these breaking events.

It was exactly 8 years ago, end of August 2014, that the Ukrainian army suffered its greatest defeat up to that time: the Ilovaisk Cauldron. Ukrainian forces, including regular army, National Guard and Azov Nazi formations, made a daring attack well behind enemy lines, surrounding the city of Donetsk from 2 or 3 directions and almost reaching the Russian border. They would have taken Donetsk, were it not for the courageous resistance of the DNR militias, led by Alexander Zakharchenko, along with Givi, Motorola, and Alexander Khodakovsky. [Some people say that regular Russian troops were also there, providing support behind the scenes, wink wink.] On August 26, 2014 the pro-Russian forces were able to out-flank and push the Ukrainian troops into a cauldron, where over 1,000 of them perished.

Ever since that day, patriotic Ukrainians have demanded revenge for Ilovaisk. Hence, it is probably not a coincidence that Zelensky picked this anniversary (which is called Day of Defenders) to launch his current counter-offensive against Kherson. But instead of revenge, all the Ukrainians got was a remake. At least, if one is to believe Russian military analysts. Who claim that the current counter-offensive has turned out to be even more of a disaster for the enemy than Ilovaisk, with something like 1,200 men killed, just on the first day.

Next we start hearing the opinions of various Russian experts. Igor Korotchenko is the chief editor of the military journal “National Defense”. Unlike some of the others, he does not believe that Zelensky picked this day out of respect for the Ilovaisk memory. Instead, he thinks the timing has more to do with the meeting of European military brass currently underway in Brussels. “They are in the process of discussing more EU aid to the Ukraine. Zelensky timed his counter-offensive to this meeting, in the assumption that he could show them some successes.” Unfortunately for him, “the counter-offensive just turned into an insane loss, and also sharpened the conflict between Zelensky and his main commander, General Valery Zaluzhny. As a result, Kiev is standing in front of a broken trough.” Korotchenko believes that Zaluzhny was opposed to the Kherson counter-offensive and warned the political leadership that it was bound to fail. [yalensis: once again, I don’t know where these analysts get their info or wherefrom they think they know what Zaluzhny said to Zelensky, but maybe they have spies, I dunno…]

Pundit Alexander Perendzhiev, also reporting for duty in the Sontaran fleet.

Another analyst, Alexander Perendzhiev, who heads the Faculty of Politics and Sociology at Plekhanov University, believes that Zelensky can still make use of the events, even a defeat, to bargain for more money and weapons out of the EU. A victory would have been better, of course, but even a defeat can be useful in this respect. Zelensky will show the Europeans his terrible losses, along with video images of dead Ukrainian soldiers; the Europeans will recoil with pity and horror, then rush to give him more stuff. This is an especially cynical view, in my opinion.

Next we meet a man named Roman Sapon’kov, who is a reporter himself, a military correspondent currently assigned to cover the Special Operation. He gets into some details of tank placement tactics: “The Ukrainian armed forces applied a rather large amount of resources. At each one of the 3 staging areas they placed 20 tanks and 2 infantry battalions.” This particular number, 20 tanks, is typical of the Ukrainian counter-offensive methodology, it’s exactly the same number they used when they tried (unsuccessfully) to retake the town of Kodema. They also used the same diversionary-strikes technique in Kodema; the Kherson counter-offensive was almost a carbon copy of Kodema, so it’s easy to guess what they are going to do next.

Given these facts, the analysts enter into an interesting debate as to whence the Ukrainians have learned these tactics. Military expert Alexei Leonkov believes that they learned these methods from NATO: “I have no doubt that the Ukrainians were taught this by Western instructors. If they were working according to the model of the Soviet military, then they would have applied more armor, at least 40 tanks per battalion.” [yalensis: maybe they didn’t have enough tanks for that?]

Leonkov’s theory is backed up by open-source information, confirming that, since 2015, Ukrainian military have been training with American, British, Canadian, and even Danish instructors. The American training program is called JMTG-U, the British counterpart is called ORBITAL. These NATO-sponsored courses focus on such technical matters as how many tanks per battalion, how many battalions to per kilometer of front line, that sort of thing. Leonkov believes that he sees the Ukrainians applying this training very literal-mindedly.

General Alexei Brusilov: “Yep, me and my moustache, we invented that tactic!”

Perendzhiev, however, disagrees. In fact he detects a pre-Soviet, Tsarist model at work here: “To a certain degree the Ukrainian armed forces appear to be using a tactic similar to the [1916] Brusilov counter-offensive [in World War I]. They launch diversionary strikes, and then the main strike in the main direction.”

Another military expert, Vladislav Shurygin, disagrees with Perendzhiev: “I don’t see anything particularly special in these Ukrainian efforts,” he scoffs dismissively. “All I see is everything according to the Western template. Around a month ago somebody leaked this entire Ukrainian plan to the internet.” The fact that the Ukrainians attempt to break through in several places simultaneously (3 places in the Kherson area plus another attempt at Bakhmut), is just par for the course. You try various things, something might click.

Still another expert, Konstantin Sivkov, thinks the Ukrainian strategy could have been more successful, had they been able to keep their aims secret. Unfortunately for them, everybody knows their plans in advance; plus, they have no air power. “Not to mention that the Russian army has complete dominance when it comes to artillery.”

Shurygin gets the last word, summarizing what we know as of today, Tuesday, the last day of August: “To launch a counter-offensive on a flat ground, practically the steppe, not having any kind of dominance, and not having crushed our artillery systems in advance, by definition they doomed themselves to enormous losses.”

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18 Responses to Ukraine War Day #189: In The Tradition Of Ilovaisk

  1. Nicolàs says:

    Te sigo habitualmente y agradezco la informaciòn que nos brindas a quienes vivimos lejos de la realidad ruso ucraniana. Solo quiere señalar que la primera imagen es de la guerra de Malvinas (guerra de las Falklands para los britànicos)

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    • yalensis says:

      Hi, Nicolàs, You think that first photo comes from the Falklands? If that is true, then I am so sorry for posting it. I googled pictures from Ilovaisk and that one came up. I didn’t mean to spread disinfo, if that is so.

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      • Anti-swastika says:

        TinEye.com led here: https://www.whizzpast.com/caught-camera-21-historys-rarest-moments

        The photo is from 1982, according to that source.

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        • yalensis says:

          Egads, I will remove the photo from my post and update with an ERRATUM.

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          • Anti-swastika says:

            I suggest bookmarking TinEye.com if you’re going to use many more images suggested by a google image search. Then, say, before you include a picture you were told was Errol Flynn playing Robin Hood, you can check its origins and learn that, no, that’s actually a fox playing Robin Hood in the Disney animated movie. Just to avoid future embarrassment and need for errata, like with wide flat expanses of wet sand before expanses of open water in Ukraine. 😉

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            • yalensis says:

              Go ahead, rub it in! You never know though, they might have some beaches and lakes around the Ilovaisk area.
              (Okay, I’ll bookmark TinEye. They wouldn’t have fooled me with the fox as Robin Hood, though, I know the difference between Errol Flynn and a cartoon fox, harrumph!)

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  2. peter moritz says:

    Funny, Perendzhiev looks like Elensky about 10 years from now, if he survives and lives in Florida..

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  3. michaeldroy says:

    Thanks for this.

    [Some people say that regular Russian troops were also there, providing support behind the scenes, wink wink.]

    Lots say that – there is still no evidence.
    Weapons yes, people no. There is no photo of 10 claimed Russian troops in Donbas in 2014 or 2015 (or at least none that isn’t an obvious fake or actually of something else). There is no satellite evidence of 10+.
    Which to my mind is pretty convincing evidence that any numbers were <100.
    (And the same is true of Crimea once you remove the photos that were taken in Sevastopol).

    US Nato General, Ben Hodges claimed repeatedly that there were 10,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine – not a shred of evidence to back it up.
    Point being that with so many people wanting to prove a point, the absence of any proof is very very significant. It is not as though you can hide 1000 people from satellites easily. October 2015 in Syria and Russia denied their arrival for a week before satellite evidence was too clear for them to bluff anymore.

    The context is complex. LPR/DPR were fighting a war, and that threat (including regular shelling) continued up to even now. Of course LPR/DPR were happy to go along with the idea that Russia was riding to its rescue. Likewise "the Russians are around the corner" was the get out excuse for every Ukrainian retreat (even in those early Nazi days, retreating was a dangerous activity).
    Russia was happy to go along with this, not just to discourage the ATO but also because domestic public opinion demanded a much stronger involvement than Putin was permitting.

    The other point never mentioned was that much of the Ukrainian 2014 armed forces deserted. Naturally enough those senior and competent soldiers were more likely to be pro-Russia in an otherwise evenly split country. This explains how the rebel military leadership was clearly so much smarter than the Ukrainian leadership.
    And a lot of them would have been people who might have chosen to join a Mariupol/Odessa/Kharkov rebellion only for prompt action by the Maidan strongmen who pre-empted such rebellions (a rare occurrence of wise US planning).

    These pro-Russian but non-LPR/DPR rebels would have a very strong motive to keep very very low profiles as they would have had families in Kiev controlled areas. So very little of the actual rebel leadership was visible, even though it was Ukrainian, not Russian

    Of course the US PR says Ukraine could never have been defeated without Russia. The BBC showed a series of maps in summer 2014 of the ATO advances into an obvious Kotel/Cauldron/bottleneck that it suggested were the basis of its own work. The series of maps then showed the ignominious withdrawal and suddenly the maps admitted the tag line – Kiev MoD.
    And the US needs the pre-meditated involvement of Russia because otherwise people will start to wonder just who cooked up the idea of the Maidan with the cooperation of crooks and Nazis? Next they'll ask abotu Syria and S American fascists with links to criminal drugs gangs.

    [yalensis: once again, I don’t know where these analysts get their info or wherefrom they think they know what Zaluzhny said to Zelensky, but maybe they have spies, I dunno…]
    Same here – but it is just so logical. If Zaluzhny has half a brain he must surely be thinking of usurping Zelensky and negotiating a peace with Russia.
    The only problem with this theory is that he would surely have done it in July or June or May or April and frankly he would have known enough back in March.

    Last word: Shurygin

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    • yalensis says:

      Excellent points. Regarding Zaluzhny, I don’t he will ever participate in a coup. He will suck it up and obey orders no matter what, I think he’s that kind of person. I reckon that’s a good thing, as far as being an officer is concerned.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Gareth says:

    Well, according to our famously free press, the “first phase” of the Ukrainian offensive is a rousing success. Russian forces are in retreat all along the front under pressure from the amazing American Himars MRLS sytem, local pro-Russian puppet leaders are fleeing in panic and American sanctions have the Russian economy on the ropes. Holy crap! I haven’t read this level of bullshit since the Vietnam war. Yes, I am that old.

    Liked by 1 person

    • S Brennan says:

      Gareth, no disrespect but, the press of 1963 were far more truthful than today’s media.

      Reporters/Press don’t really exist anymore, the people filling those spots are writing & drama majors, definitely not the ’63 crowd who were largely working class with a drilled-in talent for writing and digging up the dirt.

      RIP Dorothy Kilgallen, reporter murdered by US-National-Security-State opperatchiks [similar but, not apparatchiks]. If anything, the US-National-Security-State is far larger, far more pervasive today then when they offed JFK and Kilgallen.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. BM says:

    With 12,000 Ukrainian troops committed to this operation, you can be sure the Russians will be planning to channel as many as possible into nice big cauldrens. In part, the classical Soviet tactic: in one part of the front let them surge in, then envelop from the sides, and voila! one nicely roasted cauldren. Works every time

    Another vote for Shurygin. Martyanov said the same beforehand, here he is again reinforcing the same theme.

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  6. stephentjohnson says:

    My two cents worth:
    There’s no convincing evidence of Russian military forces directly participating in festivities in Ilovaisk or elsewhere. Plenty of reason to believe that volunteers from Russia participated, and could have been some voluntolds, too, I guess – but that would tend to leak out over time, no?.
    It seems pretty likely that the Kherson offensive of the present day is going to be a bust, even if it’s just a distraction for Izyum or Kharkov or wherever.

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